Interview with a Maestra: doña Angela Lopez

Shipibo curandera Angela Lopez at the Ayahuasca Foundation in Peru

Opening the World of the Plants

Interview with the Shipibo curandera doña Angela Lopez

In September of 2024, we hosted another retreat for military veterans in collaboration with Heroic Hearts Project and Onaya Science. This retreat was especially unique, though, because in addition to the veterans and the research team, we also welcomed a film crew to document the incredible transformations being experienced by veterans suffering from PTSD. The results of attending our retreat have been truly amazing, with every veteran receiving tremendous benefit from the retreat.

Part of the filming included an interview with our curandera, doña Angela, who discussed her background, her perspectives, and some explanations of the work she does within the plant medicine tradition and in ayahuasca ceremonies. I got to ask the questions so it was really insightful to sit down with such an incredible healer and fried in a formal interview setting. I’m so glad the world will have the opportunity to hear her wisdom in the documentary, as well. I hope you enjoy the interview.

Interview with Angela Lopez

Could you talk about your upbringing and your family tradition?

We’re brothers and sisters, from a long lineage of master healers, that came from the roots of our grandparents, called Sama Meni. My grandfather was a master healer who had an incredible connection with the plants. In those times, our grandparents, in this type of healing, would fly with the connection of the plants.

But for us to get to that level it isn’t just six or seven years. Many many years they dedicated to this, and we loved being with our grandparents. Children love to be at the side of their grandparents, when they have loving grandparents. As children we loved to watch, starting with my oldest brother Enrique, and then my brother Miguel, then me and then Rono. My brother, Rono, was the smartest, and I, too, entered the tradition. I watched my little brother, and he would sometimes scream for no reason, my grandfather would use his pipe and blow smoke on him, and after ten to fifteen minutes, he was calm.

And so, the desire rose in me that I wanted to do this one day. Why can’t I do it? Sometimes, he would tell me to bring a plant and cook it. I would cook it and would blow my intentions into it, then my grandfather would tell me to drink it and rest. It was so nice to see this lineage of the plants help others. From this lineage we were born, knowing that we, too, could do this work and help other people. In the world of shamanism, there are a lot of types of healers. Some are Ayahuasca healers, and some are plant remedy healers.

In my case, I work in both Ayahuasca and plant healing. I like to help and give plants to everyone. ‘Who is having a headache? You? Ok, come here, I have something for you, concentrate,’ and then after ten minutes, I’d ask them how they feel and they’d say, ‘ah, thank you.’ And I’d feel happy. I like to help people, and for this reason I do this work.

Can you explain a little bit about your healing work?
What is a healer and how is your work?

First, good afternoon, my name is Angela Lopez, in Shipibo: Kene Bensho. I come from Roaboya Nativa community, and I also come from my experiences in the spiritual world that is like shamanism, to help other friends who come from far away seeking to be healed physically and spiritually.

The life of shamanism in ayahuasca is to connect with the plants. From birth, I have been called by the plants that God has left in this world. For example, Noya Rao, Bobinsana, and Marusa are master plants that we don’t see physically, we only connect with spiritually. With these forces, which I have also received, the power and strength of the plants, I help other people.

Could you explain what the medicine Ayahuasca is?

The medicine Ayahuasca is two people. The Ayahuasca vine is male and the Chacruna bush is female. The Ayahuasca gives us the trance state and the Chacruna brings us the visions. So, this is why this plant medicine is very sacred, because it brings us many visions so we can see the energies of others. That is Ayahuasca medicine, a very sacred plant medicine, a master plant.

When you enter the maloca, you sit down and spend about twenty minutes in preparation, using your pipe, blowing smoke on yourself, the medicine, and different tools. Could you tell us about the preparation you’re doing?

During my preparation at the altar, I sit to smoke my pipe and concentrate, protecting my body. Then I take the sacred plant, that is the Ayahuasca medicine, and I blow the intentions into it to connect the participants to good visions, or to bring the world of spirits without confusion, without darkness, all peaceful. After blowing my intentions into it, I blow smoke from my pipe into the Ayahuasca. After that, I take my cup, and I blow smoke again on each cup of medicine I give to the participants.

After the participants and I drink our cups, I wait fifteen to twenty minutes for the connection with the plant to come, or the trance state of Ayahuasca. For this, I wait fifteen to twenty minutes to begin my work of opening the world of Ayahuasca.

When a participant comes to take a cup of ayahuasca, how do you know how much to give them?

When the participants get here, the first ceremony is a diagnosis for each person for me to learn how much to give them, how much medicine is needed to connect them or to permeate their bodies. From then on, I know how much to give them, if they can handle just a little or a bit more; and so that way I know how much they will receive.

You put the medicine in the cup, and then what is happening at the last moment before giving them the cup?

First, I see who the participant is to measure how much medicine to give them. They sit at the altar and I receive their energy and concentrate again and connect directly with their bodies to ensure the strength of the Ayahuasca won’t make them scream, won’t drive them crazy, so they can have good visions in the world of the plant, the world of Ayahuasca. I make this connection with my concentration for each cup.

I saw that you drank a large amount directly from the bottle. Why is that?

That’s an interesting question…
Every Shipibo master healer drinks directly from the bottle. The sacred cup that I have, made of Noya Rao, I blow different intentions into, specific to the participants. After they drink, I put the cup down and I take the bottle of sacred Ayahuasca, and I have a different way to connect for me, intended to guide, as a guide or a master healer, you could say. I can’t drink from the same cup as the participants, because they have another kind of energy. I blow my intentions in the bottle once again, and that’s it.

When you’re in ceremony, you’re singing. Could you talk about that kind of work, singing and connecting with the plants?

When I am about to go to the ceremony, I first must focus while I’m in my house to prepare for the work. I arrive at the house of healing, which is a sacred place, and I have to concentrate again with my pipe, with my tobacco. My tobacco, my pipe, is my sword, my defense. Agua de Florida is also my defense against any negative energies. That’s how I focus and connect with myself first, to begin opening the world of ayahuasca.

What is happening while you sing?

Once I’m connected with the sacred master that is Ayahuasca, the connection of the spirits of the plants comes to me so I always sing my kano, the line of connection that I have for each plant I have in my diets. First, I make the connection so that I can connect the participants to these plants.

Connecting and looking at the bodies of each participant, I see what kind of energy is coming from the participants, or what kind of physical problem they have, or spiritual. So, while connecting with the participant, the spirits of the plants guide me directly to their bodies. Not because I’m seeing what I sing, no. The spirit of the plant guides me to every participant.

Could you speak about how you connect to and open the world of spirts in the ceremony?

The connection, when it comes, the Ayahuasca, the strength of Ayahuasca, you know, the head and the whole body… we wait for this force. And when you’re at this point where the force has penetrated your body, a world opens on its own for us.

The spirits of the plants come first to guide me. I listen to them and they guide me to open the world of the plants, the world of Ayahuasca. I’m not doing it on my own, I’m being guided by the spirit of the plants, of Noya Rao.

The trance state of the participants sometimes comes on slowly. So, when it comes on slowly, with the connection of the plant Bobinsana, I can more quickly connect the participant to the strength, the energy, or the trance state.  When the participant is connected, a master healer is guided by the spirits of the plant and the trance of the Ayahuasca to control the experience of each of the participants.

Sometimes the trance state for a participant comes on very strong, sometimes weak. The master healer can control the trance states for each person. So, all of this is guided spiritually by the plant.

In other traditions, the curanderos sing songs and each time they repeat the same words, like a song on the radio. But not you, when you sing, the melody is the same, but the words are different. Are you singing something specific for each moment in the ceremony? Could you tell us about that?

Okay, Look, brother Carlos…
As I am now, sitting here, I don’t have any kind of healing song in my mind. There are other people who have learned, not everyone, but some have. But, in my case, if you asked me to sing a healing song, I wouldn’t be able to, because I don’t have them in my head.

I go into the ceremony, I sit at the altar, and when I am not in the trance state, I don’t have my healing songs, my chants, my ability to guide everyone. When I feel like I have no bones, no nothing, then the spirits of the plants, each of the spirits of the plants, come to me with their words, how to sing to each participant, how to liberate each participant, how to raise their spirits or the negative energies they have. So, I sing, guided by the spirits of the plants, guided by the spirits of my diets. The same melody, maybe, but the words I sing are directed by the spirits.

One of the participants in the ceremony had a very deep healing process. You were a great help to her, could you talk what you saw and how you were able to help her?

After I make the connection, after I sing, the spirits of the plants guiding me ends my healing song and I go back to my altar. I then feel a connection to all of them. When the others are singing, I’m not in this world. I’m connected with the participants, who is here, who is not here, why they are laughing, etc. At that point, the spirit of Marusa came to me to tell me that someone is fighting for her life, and just then my assistant, Brian, came and told me, ‘maestra there’s a young woman trembling badly.’

I said, ‘ok, take me there, so I can help her. We’ll bring the trance state down a little.’ I went there and sat down, and took my perfume made of plants. I was spraying the perfume on her with the intention of pulling the force of Ayahuasca from her into me. I can’t leave her on her own because this is my lineage, and when I pull this energy from Ayahuasca from her again I feel the strength of the trance state.

I began to rise up higher into the energy of Ayahuasca, and after that I bathed her with the water from the all-powerful plant that is the master Noya Rao. I cleansed her body, her blood, and everything, so she could calm down. After blowing healing intentions I began sucking out the trance state from her temples so that it would lower slowly. It doesn’t take only five or ten minutes, because it is a process, but slowly it went.

For someone who doesn’t know the process of sucking out, could you explain it?

We have various types of the process of sucking out, to take out the trance state, to remove darkness, to take away pain, but in this case, when I sucked out from the temples it was to pull the strength of the trance, the effects of Ayahuasca. When you do this… you bring the trance state out of the person, and it enters your body. So, I had to practice this process of sucking out the energies.

How do you feel about this work that helps people from all parts of the world?

Here I feel at peace, guided by the spirits of the plants. I can’t say what is the effect of my work, but the participants tell me, ‘Thank you. I feel happy, transformed, I love you, I feel like I’m in another world, you changed my life.’

So, I also feel happy when they tell me these things, and I am grateful for this place, I’m grateful for you, and for the all-powerful God who is giving me this job that we’re doing. It’s a hard job but we strive to help others.

There are military veterans who come here and who are cured and don’t think anymore about suicide, they can’t wait to go back and move on with their lives and live their lives with joy. What’s happening here? What’s going on? How do you explain that? And how does that make you feel?

I’ll say it again, they see me as a woman and they say thank you, but at times in my connection with the plants the spirits tell me to say to them, ‘Thank God that they have come here.’ Seeing these traumas that have negatives energies and darkness, at times it makes me sad. A master healer struggles and feels the sadness of the world. So, I must call to the spirit of Noya Rao and the spirit of Chullachaqui.

These plants are trees. They’re stronger, not like the other plants. That’s why they have so much power. I’m not doing it, no. It’s these spirits that are guiding the participants to achieve the changes in their lives, coming to this sacred house of Riosbo. So, it’s because of the plants.

If you had the chance to give a message to the people of the world, what message do you have for them?

Not just some but many people are thinking about committing suicide nowadays and they think they are at the end of their world. They don’t think beyond that. But in the world of the plants where we are, doing this work, you do have a solution, you only need to connect to the spirits of the plants, to see that life keeps going. I recommend to those who are suffering to come here, to this place, or there are many places where healing and liberation exists in the world of Ayahuasca and the connection with the plants, to transform and find relief from the suffering so many people have. That is what I want to share with them.